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Axure Abbacus
Pentex Subsidiaries Corp
64
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Posted - 2017.06.21 12:23:34 -
[1] - Quote
Eve currently has a system where fighting over resources only happens at moons. All other materials are in infinite supply. In order to dry up the mineral market and drive conflict I propose drastically scaling back mining belt regeneration during downtime. Have Belts fully reset once a week on Sunday morning. The rest of the week only regenerate 10% of full value of belts.
It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
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Axure Abbacus
Pentex Subsidiaries Corp
65
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Posted - 2017.06.21 13:39:52 -
[2] - Quote
Terrible, no i would have to disagree with you on that. Realistically you are over estimating the effect a change to belts would effect EVE.
There is a huge difference between the minerals mined and minerals available in eve. You can look at any monthly economic report and see where and how much mining activity is happening and adapt to where isn't being mined out.
The good players would adapt to being a mobile strip mining fleet. The risk vs reward would drastically improve for miners. This doesn't affect anomalies spawns and doesn't totally eliminate belts. The amount of Cached minerals currently would more then cover any bump in the market and there has been mention of moon mining also adding ABC ore to the mix.
This totally would be a win/win for the Economy. The amount of available minerals and produced items compared to destroyed has been sitting at a ratio of 4 to 1 for years. Mining could come to a screeching halt and it would be years before you would have issues reshipping. Give it some more thought and look over the data or just look for mined out belts.
This would be a good start to a healthy thriving economy.
It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
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Axure Abbacus
Pentex Subsidiaries Corp
65
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Posted - 2017.06.21 23:20:07 -
[3] - Quote
Yes Cade, it the Title of the thread.
It would just physiological in most ways as the amount of mined minerals is a fraction of what is in any region. With a better understanding of the metrics maybe 10% of standing value is too low or too high. Additional sources of minerals are constantly available and reducing the belt size just shifts things around.
It would scale down the belt mineral supply to a multiple of the averaged mining minerals. Full re-spawns can be throttled as needed. Overall m3 in belts can be altered like how it is handled in Null. Low security space belts are irrelevant anyway. Either way ccp will be changing belts at some point.
CCP has been working on scaling back mineral supply for years. It hasn't harmed the eve economy so far only made it evolve. Additional cases I am looking are the Rogue drone alloy removal, the reduction of gun mining, reprocessing rewrite all decreased the available minerals in eve. Additionally the changes to Ice belts altered the availability of ice products.
Additionally increasing a level of foraging is healthy in any environment. It is why it is used in zoos to maintain the exhibits mental capacity and why trough feeding is widely used in cattle production. I will leave everyone to make the connections for themselves.
I will take another look at the data. I could be incorrect and letting peoples wine threads overshadow the data. Eve is dying tl/dr.
These forums will self destruct in 90 days so for starters, so Sever- welcome to eve or not if you've been here forever. If you showed up to eve just for the mining then, yeah...god bless your heart, your simple-simple heart.
It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
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Axure Abbacus
Pentex Subsidiaries Corp
65
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Posted - 2017.06.22 00:31:15 -
[4] - Quote
Its cool. There's a difference between fact checking and being there. I enjoyed Drone alloys as well as mining. Future changes will be enjoyable. So here is to my ass.
It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
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Axure Abbacus
Pentex Subsidiaries Corp
65
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Posted - 2017.06.22 01:16:48 -
[5] - Quote
Thanks k you for your time. It's moments like this that makes Eve enjoyable.
It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
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Axure Abbacus
Pentex Subsidiaries Corp
65
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Posted - 2017.06.22 15:33:58 -
[6] - Quote
My main has 91,719,863 skill points and generates 1,448.71 skill points an hour. He is skilled for industry and up to capital pvp. With skill extractors, I can burn him down to a 10 million skill point Orca character and generate 8 Mackinaw exhumer toons mining 577.6k m3/ an hour and remap all characters for Skill point farming.
I then use all those minerals and farmed Skill points to create a 9 man Rorqual Fleet that generates 8,019k M3/ an hour while farming skill points and add a cyno alt that is also remapped for skill point farming. Isk and Minerals are irrelevant at that point. Delve produced 6.7 T worth of minerals with some approach like this I would guess. Typical mining for other regions is around 1T isk but that would easily spike with this gameplay.
When I first started playing was right before the Dominion release, the Mineral Price index was at a record low of 60 and Primary and Secondary Price market indexes were 80. The price for Trit was around 3.3 to 4.5 isk a unit. I have watched it rise ever since. I played a Gallente industry toon non-botting living in Lonetrek when botting was rampant. It was one of the deciding factors why I left Caldari space for Syndicate.
Make mining to break the game take some effort again. The Ice Harvesting changes from Odyssey is a good approach that could be taken with Ore.
-Reduce belt yield by 77%
-Increase chance of Ore Anomalies by 33%
-Increase chance of Shattered worm holes by 33%
It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
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Axure Abbacus
Pentex Subsidiaries Corp
65
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Posted - 2017.06.22 16:20:42 -
[7] - Quote
I am always happy to be wrong and Eve is always a great place to be wrong. When I first logged on in the Eve timeline does skew my perception of things and I accept that. So whats to the new normal for eve Industry?
It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
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Axure Abbacus
Pentex Subsidiaries Corp
65
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Posted - 2017.06.22 18:51:50 -
[8] - Quote
I expected as much but didn't want to be one of those "post with your main" type guys. I didn't fully research shattered worm holes, totally admit that. I periodically started logging off in 2012 when I went back to start my undergrads in mechanical design and am down to my last three classes. My life is kinda blurry sometimes.
So when i first started, everything was cheep as dirt compared to the current markets. There were the Korean bot fleet and the Russian bot fleet, Gun mining but it was it was. CCP would make a big deal and punt a few while making a big stink to keep people happy. When my friends in hi sec caved to inflation and starting botting I was totally like f that and x'd up in syndicate for pvp.
The industry buffs haven't done anything about the Inflation. In some ways i get it, we've gotten older and plexing is so much easier once you break 20$ an hour. Incursions are awesome. The quarterly reports use to be great help but the monthly reports not so much. I log back and have some fun but never see much improvement in the economy. There is always a new normal and i roll with it. The markets have hit a happy spot. I keep seeing the liquid isk hockey stick and being surprised that it hasn't been fixed.
Its the new normal and it's cool but i find keep finding myself siding with goonswarm when they tea bag eve. I was disappointed when all the PVP guys got their jump freighter's reimbursed when Tornado's first came out. It seems like there is no solution to inflation and when massive destruction happens still nothing budges. So its like I guess you could tactically nuke minerals for a bit to induce hyper-inflation or drastically increase ore spawns to the point where Isk is meaningless. Which bot program does 5-o recommend these days? Skill point farming is kinda ridiculous but at-least they "just" dropped ghost training.
In the end I keep looking the what the Healthy Economy is in eve today and ended up on the Forums. What i find is still biased by the conflicting individual players perceptions of Eve which leads me back to the question of "Why aren't I bot mining a fleet of Rorquals out with Goonswarm already?"
It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
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Axure Abbacus
Pentex Subsidiaries Corp
68
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Posted - 2017.06.23 00:13:51 -
[9] - Quote
Thank you guys both for helping me shake off some of the old eve baggage. Eve has always been a Layer cake depending on your grasp of things. I've done well over the years despite not being all in. Eve's always felt like it was going tin two separate directions.
It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
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Axure Abbacus
Pentex Subsidiaries Corp
69
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Posted - 2017.06.23 23:14:47 -
[10] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:
How is this a "win/win"? We have less to do, less stuff to build with, and less reason to engage in PvP?
I'm trying to see just the "win" let alone the "win/win".
You, and everyone else it Correct. Thank you. Yes my logic and presentation skills were impaired and i do see where it came from.
"The study suggests that strategically controlled environments, by creating product uncertainty, are able to motivate behaviors such as urgency to buy. It is further suggested that urgency to buy is mediated by emotions like anticipated regret that these
retailers are able to successfully generate in the mind of the consumer. Further, scarcity communicated by the retailer threatens consumersGÇÖ freedom, thus triggering psychological reactance and encouraging them to take immediate actions like inGÇôstore
hoarding and inGÇôstore hiding, to safeguard their behavioral freedom. The study also takes into account individual traits like competitiveness, hedonic shopping motivations, and need for uniqueness, and examines their influence on consumersGÇÖ behavioral responses. "
Taken from (http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=businessdiss)
I will Update the OP.
It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
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Axure Abbacus
Pentex Subsidiaries Corp
69
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Posted - 2017.06.24 00:14:35 -
[11] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Axure Abbacus wrote:Eve currently has a system where fighting over resources only happens at moons. All other materials are in infinite supply. In order to dry up the mineral market and drive conflict I propose drastically scaling back mining belt regeneration during downtime. Have Belts fully reset once a week on Sunday morning. The rest of the week only regenerate 10% of full value of belts. Supply is not infinite. Hell it isn't even perfectly elastic. This is why the idea is terrible. The premise is not even remotely true at all.
Yes, the idea was flawed. Thank you.
I was taking into account the the available resources on a macro level and looking at the overall system utilization per capita. With an average of 30,000 pilots logged on across 8k systems the mean population density would be 3.75 pilots per system. Even if you increased the averaged pilots logged on to 80,000 that would only move the base count to 10 pilots per system. I don't know how high of a population the Eve cluster was designed for but it looks like we could easily support well above 250,000 logged on an active pilots across the cluster.
Many systems go unused for various reasons, including a lack of a station in the system but with Citadels you can move into any system.
It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
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Axure Abbacus
Pentex Subsidiaries Corp
73
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Posted - 2017.06.25 23:04:52 -
[12] - Quote
After getting some solid sleep I will continue with this concept.
By creating a situation where the availability of building materials is far more dynamic could lead to a more volatile market. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. Variation in the availability of materials generates opportunity for profit or loss. Several people of voiced their concerns and they are valid. Additional information would be required to successfully implement a level of acceptable market flux.
The current system of belts does leave much to static constraints. Scarcity, even superficial scarcity could generate additional interest in the mineral markets and some additional friendly competition. Additional mechanics involving increasing the chances of profitable spawns by stripping belts could lead to more players to group mining or further concentrate industrial efforts. There is much room to play with in mining to add interesting content and alter the perception of mining as a whole.
Thank you all for adding so much to this thread. I hope I didn't come off too inept.
http://www.bankers-anonymous.com/blog/volatility-in-stocks-thats-a-good-thing/
It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
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Axure Abbacus
Pentex Subsidiaries Corp
74
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Posted - 2017.06.27 19:59:47 -
[13] - Quote
Agondray wrote:Great idea! not.
lets decrease mineral production by allowing only 1 full regen a week while every system is stripped clean of bots and npc fleets.
wait, while have regen at all and just let the ore market die instead
TL/DR? It's cool. The universe will end some how. Choose your destroyer. Thank you for playing.
It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
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Axure Abbacus
Pentex Subsidiaries Corp
79
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Posted - 2017.06.29 22:26:40 -
[14] - Quote
Agondray wrote:Great idea! not.
lets decrease mineral production by allowing only 1 full regen a week while every system is stripped clean of bots and npc fleets.
wait, while have regen at all and just let the ore market die instead
Axure Abbacus wrote:[Eve currently has a system where fighting over resources only happens at moons. All other materials are in infinite supply. In order to dry up the mineral market and drive conflict I propose drastically scaling back mining belt regeneration during downtime. Have Belts fully reset once a week on Sunday morning. The rest of the week only regenerate 10% of full value of belts. ]
This Idea is Flawed. While rooting in basic Economic and Consumer behavior manipulation principals, it was poorly thought through and presented.
Make mining more dynamic to add a sense of scarcity and interesting level of competition. The Ice Harvesting changes from Odyssey is a good approach that could be taken with Ore.
-Reduce belt yield by 77+/-% (1-3T value per region?)
-Increase chance of Ore Anomalies by 33%
-Increase chance of C1-C2 Worm holes by 33%
The concept was discussed with several other pilots and various valid points were made. After considering the concept,the revised concept was reducing belt sizes and offsetting yields with access to higher yield anomalies and wormholes. This may or may not negatively effect bottling granted programmers have kept up with changes in Eve. It would make it different somewhat for high security bot fleets. So what if belts are mined out by bots if the belts are smaller and require more bot setup in more systems? Active miners could find better content.
Thank you for your brief interest.
It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
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Axure Abbacus
Pentex Subsidiaries Corp
80
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Posted - 2017.06.30 15:39:20 -
[15] - Quote
Xzanos wrote:Just my two cents to keep the post going as i would also like to see some kind of change in mineral distribution
The mineral distribution is a game balance created to induce cross regional trade. Ore anomalies are the ore pushed around you are looking for. So it "does" happen, just not to belts.
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Why would I ever invest ISK to upgrade my space if all my upgrade do is "push" resources to someone else's space?
You don't because Sov Space is different. You spend Isk to control the very nature of your territory, which makes this specific concept irrelevant in Sov space. Random occurrences are beneath you. 
It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
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Axure Abbacus
Pentex Subsidiaries Corp
84
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Posted - 2017.07.03 02:24:56 -
[16] - Quote
James Zimmer wrote:I can see the appeal of creating greater conflict over resources, but I don't think this really helps that very well. I think the market would adjust to this by increasing the price of minerals, resulting in people melting down ratting loot to meet the demand.
I think a better solution would be to reduce drop rates of meta modules from ratting, which would making mining more vital. You could also create localized scarcity by adjusting spawn rates of particular rocks in particular sections of space. You wouldn't want it to be absolute, where only one region of space produces a certain resource (it's been tried before and allows for some pretty game-damaging economic warfare), but you could make it so that certain resources are most common in certain parts of space.
Thank you for your interest in this thread.
The concept isn't meant to be a silver bullet to solve the mineral markets. There isn't that much wrong with mineral markets in general other than being a very boring section of EvE. Both of your assumptions would be correct. There would be a slight up tick in the value of minerals and an increased use of scrap metal reprocessing. This wouldn't be a bad thing by increasing the value of a miners time or removing unneeded modules from the market.
The reduction of meta modules drop rates has happened several years ago when it was more fun to mine level 4 missions and battleship rats than sit in a belt for days on end.
Mining is a necessary profession in eve, but it will not be quick, and you might not enjoy it.
It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
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